In this interview series, I speak to experienced Agile practitioners about a specific training they took to find out what it was about, what they took out of it, and how they apply the material when working with the clients and organisations they serve.
Alexandra Baptizmanskaya
Alexandra Baptizmanskaya is the co-founder of Co-Actors, an ICAgile-certified instructor, and an experienced facilitator with a background in sociology and psychology.
Beyond her professional life, Alexandra finds balance in her passions for baking cinnamon buns and doing CrossFit.
Find her and her crew here.

Can you give me an introduction to the training you took?
The Vertical Facilitation Deep Dive is a quite long cohort program, where we dive together into the mindset and techniques of Vertical Facilitation. We had calls every two weeks for three months, and in the middle of the program, there was an intensive of 3 calls of 5 hours To get a certification for this program, I had to make a project. In the project, you have to show how you apply the skills of Vertical Facilitation to what you do in your work. You show how you would apply it in a course or a meeting. Next to this main part, you must participate in the calls and do some coaching sessions to complete the class.
Could you briefly explain it for those who do not know what Vertical Facilitation is?
I would say that Vertical Facilitation goes beyond traditional facilitation, which typically focuses on processes and tools on how you achieve a goal in a meeting. Vertical Facilitation emphasizes deeper emotional connections and dynamics in the group. It creates some authentic connections and group processes, it creates a safe space for deeper learning and being vulnerable, and it enables transformative growth. It mostly deals with psychological aspects and creates a space for growth and transformation.
I know that this sounds very broad, but this is what it is. It is a kind of advanced program that focuses on meta-skills.
What did you learn in this class?
I had two different kinds of learning. The first one is obvious: some approaches of vertical facilitation, like the way of interacting with the participants, some techniques, and activities that are being performed. This is all on the practical level. The other learning is on the meta level: a better understanding of my strengths and weaknesses and areas for further personal growth, away from the course. This second dimension is the fact that I have grown as a person and as a leader during this program. This is what transformative training is about. Fifty percent of what you get is something you can apply, the other half is about how you feel and how you change as a participant.
How are you applying the things you learned during this training?
For me, it is a bit different, since I already had a psychological background before this class. When teaching my own classes and working with clients, I sometimes use the therapeutic approaches I learned during my education. Some of those are applicable, some of them are too deep for a short session (if I do a one-time strategic session with a client, I will not really have a relationship with the client). I believe that the practical learnings I got from Vertical Facilitation are very applicable for the classes I gave and are not intimidating for people and groups that are not used to too deep psychological work. Not all groups are ready for this emotional dynamic, vulnerability, and growth and transformation – they have no need for that. The Vertical Facilitation skills that I am using in the classes that I teach as an instructor are working out very well. It is not something unique that I have learned, but now I have a name and a range of different skills that can be deeper and more provocative, or that are staying on the surface, touching it only a little bit.
Can you give an example where a group or a person would be ready for this deeper work?
I was working with a group of HR VPs from one of my clients who were all working with software developers. We spoke about the problems and complications that they face. The conversation seemed to stay on the surface quite a lot. Our conversation did not seem to touch on any feelings of being anxious or nervous about the developers, who were not always open to being coached by the group from HR.
The Vertical Facilitator approach was to highlight this a little bit, ‘calling it out’ as we call this: “ I see us talking about work, but nothing is being said about the feelings of being tired and anxious. It is not mentioned, but it is here. I want you to discuss the whole variety of different feelings that you get when working with teams.’ It actually worked really well. I explained that all emotions and experiences were legit in this space. People started sharing cases where they were desperately trying to reach out to developers with activities and were getting rejected. They explained how they loved their work, but that they were getting very tired from experiences like that. This changed the whole program. We devoted the rest of the day to discussing strategies that would help, which was very useful.
Where should people be on their own journey to benefit from this training?
This is an important question, because I think when you someone would just start out as a manager when they would join this program, they would not benefit from it and might find it quite meaningless. When you start a new role, you need more practical and applicable skills. To feel a need for deeper and more advanced classes, I think a person needs experience of working with different audiences and classes. At some point, you will then lack approaches how to deal with certain situations. I cannot really say that there are a lot of classes in the market that help people deal with the psychological difficulties of dealing with people. There is coaching, but that is mainly asking questions. There is meditation, but this is not really directly applicable. An advanced course, like Vertical Facilitation, addresses the needs of those people, who already acquired a lot of skills.If you are looking to continue the journey of self-exploration and discovering your own leadership style and your unique way of working with groups, this might be the right choice. Doing it earlier might lead to disappointment and a lack of understanding why we even talk about these kind of topics.
Is there anything else people should be aware of?
People that are considering this class, should also have a place to practice what they have learned. If you are working with teams and also for example give classes or work on the company level, you might get more out of this program.
Alexandra participated in a special cohort for ICAgile Instructors and ICAgile Expert Certificate holders of Vertical Facilitation Deep Dive at Evolvagility. The program was taught by Michael Hammond and Lyssa Adkins
This is the third article in a series. Find all the articles here.
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